Inbound After Hours with Larry Kim: How huge messenger marketing actually is

Larry Kim talks to us about just how important messenger-based marketing is, tips for succeeding on Medium and business-success in general.

Inbound After Hours with Larry Kim: How huge messenger marketing actually is
Written by Paul Mortimer
Inbound after hours, Inbound video  |   24 minute read

We took a bit of a break from recording the podcast but we’re back at it. And we’ve picked up where we left off: it’s either a few of us exploring something relevant to inbound marketers and trying to share as many learnings as possible, or we’re chatting to a big-name guest and getting them to share some insights. This episode’s the latter. Say hello to one of the biggest names in digital marketing: Larry Kim, CEO of MobileMonkey, Inc.

Larry talked us through how he started Wordstream in a shared working space before going on to selling it for $150M. We discussed how to succeed at personal branding as a B2B marketing exercise (like how our previous guests, Rand Fishkin and Neil Patel, have too), and how Larry became the 8th biggest author on Medium and earned himself millions of views.

And, of course, we discussed his new business, the world's fastest growing chat platform, Mobile Monkey. Currently, only 1% of marketers are employing messenger-based comms but he predicts that figure rising to 50% in the near future... and that's why Larry believes his new platform will be a billion-dollar tool.

Find out more about just how big messenger-based marketing, chat marketing, chatbots, or whatever you want to call it, is going to be in the episode below:


"The greatest opportunity in marketing for the next decade is messaging. Just like how email marketing was so fundamental in transforming marketing communications over the last 20 years, I think, chat marketing is next."

Larry Kim, Mobile Monkey CEO, on Inbound After Hours.

If you checked out the previous shows and noticed that some of the audio quality was a bit dodgy at times (usually when I set the mics up, to be fair), you’ll be pleased to know all of that’s sorted now. We’ve upgraded the tools (by getting an in-house professional to man the cameras and equipment - Hiya, Aleks!) and also upgraded the equipment.

The full transcript of the episode is below.

Subscribe and check out other episodes wherever you get your podcasts and leave us a review if you’re feeling it. Also, if you wanna join an ever-growing community inbound marketers, Inbound After Hours also has a buzzing Facebook group. Check it out.

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The transcript

Larry : It ended up, uh, we just sold the business last July for $150,000,000 to USA Today.

And, um, I'm, uh kind of working on my next.

Thanks, guys.

My name's Larry Kim. I'm kind of known for starting a company called Board Stream. It's the world's largest pay-per click advertising software company, you know, managing over $1,000,000,000 for tens of 1000 of customers worldwide.

So that was over 300 people.

And, um, started that company in my twenties

now as ah

kind of inbound marketing,

you know,

consulting person just like this doing SEO and paperwork advertising. And  you know, I didn't I didn't have any co founders.

I was just working out of a kind of ah bakery, you know, just because it had free WiFi and free diet Coke refills.

And, you know, it was it was great.

I was just signing up and consulting clients and doing consulting service is for different

clients using word of mouth as kind of my referral, uh, kind of lead source. You know,

And, the company grew and grew, and at one point it was almost a sole proprietorship. I have, like, eight customers. You know, spending around 8000 month or something that says so. It was like, you know, a retainer fees. I was, like, almost like 60 or $70,000 a month for a retainer fees for, like, a 20 something, you know? So it was pretty big.

And then I ended up writing software to automate the repetitive tasks they was doing because my doctorate was an electrical engineer and on and then the light bulb went off. It's like, Why don't you just sell the software instead of like, yeah, instead of, you know, selling the service is and so that was kind of how that started.

And it ended up. Uh, we just sold the business last July. $450,000,000 to USA Today and i'm kind of working on my next.

Rikki : That's amazing.

No, congratulations on that.

Paul : Pretty similar story to Rikki with SEO and working as a consultant.

Rikki : Yeah,

I guess we went in different paths a little bit. Larry Because I had a similar sort of start to you, had those sorts of clients in my twenties. And then I thought I had more clients then I can manage myself, but I want the agency route.

Probably probably not done. Quite as well

probably didn't make the right choice. At that time, I could've got software to do some of it, but I went down the agency route, and we've, We've enjoyed what we've done and obviously, about huge success in what you've done.

How did you find transitioning from services to software Company? That's a big change.

Sure. Um, you know,

I think it's it's harder than a lot of people to realise, but you need to realise my background and training.

And then prior work history was all in software engineering itself for development.

Like this whole marketing thing was kind of, uh, something I discovered, uh, as a kind of a softer product developer.

So, um, you know, it's in some ways, the marketing was just like learning. The marketing stuff was actually harder than the software stuff.


you know, so, uh, you know, it's it's very different. You, um you know,

It's a selling like a services package for over 80,000 month. You're selling it for, like, 200 bucks a month, you know, and you know this means you need a lot of customers like you're here building a train and you need a lot of passengers on that train because the tickets are cheap.

so, um, just different kind of  market.

The different different team members

I think um Service's businesses, more of operations game. So, like where you need to be really efficient at, like, hiring and and, you know, making your employees, like, really well trained to manage dozens of accounts.

It's more kind of operating margins, game like, you know where I think. Product.

Um, you know, there's a little, other more vectors like, uh,v this innovation and, like, you know, the quality of the product and then the the growth hacks used to get millions of people to use the product so it's a little different

Rikki : For sure. And then you've, uh, you've sold Wordstream, and now you're doing it again. What the

How did you have the motivation to have a successful exit like you've had? And then think "I'm gonna do this all over again with another company"?

Larry : It's like you're too young to retire here, and, um, you know, I just, uh I feel like I learned a lot in the industry in terms off you know learning how to, I don't know, Recruit a team or to, 

How to develop and bring to market marketing software and all this stuff. And so the kind of the dream is like, if I could do this, you know, an even bigger company in half the time, you know,

Rikki : challenge.

Larry : It's just like an internal motivation to see if that's possible. Uh, no, it's just something to do. Like, why do you do what you do

Rikki : Yeah, it's No, it's

Paul : We've been trying about that recently in terms of like, just planning for the company and stuff we've been talking about. What, what things to aim for. One of the criteria for whatever we're doing, is just to keep enjoying it.

Yeah, and if you're not enjoying it, then what's the point exactly?

Larry : So I'm motivated by three things.

One is, um, you know, it's cool to make tons of money, so that's good.

Rikki : That's a good Number 1!

Larry : It's better than not making anything

Rikki : No 100%.

Larry : But I'm also motivated by other factors.

One of them is, um, just creating jobs for opportunities for others.

So one thing I'm really proud of is Wordstream actually employed over its 10 year life cycle that I was involved in the company over 1000 people, mostly millennials and giving a lot of people a lot of great training and Uh, and, uh, you know, hiring people, you know, basically out of college. To give them the 1st 2nd job out of college.

Um, And, um,

You know, these people are now executives at, like, Facebook and Google and things, so I feel like I helped out there a little bit. Um, you know, And also,


It's kind of cool if, uh, to have something that companies use.

Like like, uh uh, I think

I think you want to have something that's useful and It's kind of kind of cool.

Paul : So in your intro, Larry, you ended your intro like backstory with where you had to know. So you talked about you were working at the back of a bakery. Free WiFi where, you know, like, literally, logistically

What's your set up, whats your day to day?

Larry : The bakeries of 2019 are these reworks, you know, like this here office. Things like this didn't exist the decade ago. So basically, uh, I'm renting out a place for you know myself and  a couple a couple dozen employees, and it's it's pretty cheap and, um, very flexible.

Paul : But are you? Are you all together or are You scattered remotely

Larry : A little bit of both, but but mostly most of the company, more than 50% is located here.

Rikki : So you mentioned when you go on word stream, you've done it with a lot of college grads and millennials and stuff. I guess a lot of people in marketing a the first few employees tend to be those sorts of people. What way? We've obviously been um We do that ourselves. What sort of challenges did you find building the workforce. It's particularly young, Um, what did you learn from that?

Larry : Um, you know, it's it's a challenge. So when you're when you're early on, you don't really have anything. So and the people who are good typically aren't just sitting on their hands, you know, they probably are working on some other job or some other opportunity. And so the challenge is to like,How do you get really good quality people To leave whatever it is there previously doing and join you on this new adventure?

Um, you know, because it's not fully baked, you know what I mean?

So what I have found is, um, kind of one of the keys. Um uh, things you need to do as a founder or as in, you know, as an early employees executives,


is to be very intentional about projecting a very exciting and bold vision of where you're going. So it's less about what what you've done and what you've achieved and more about how you can, You know, this new person could be an integral part of bringing this new new new transformer division to market. And, you know, really, realistically most people will say you're crazy and this is not for me.

And I think I prefer to get paid a lot of money. You said that this other company, but, uh, but that's okay, because, uh, it's kind of filter, right?

So, like that by projecting the vision, what you're doing is you're filtering out the people who are incapable of of, uh, realising that vision, The 1% of people who do you say that, like sign me up like that's the only person who can actually do it, you know? Or the crazy person

Love that, that's really good.

Before we got on to what you're working on now from a marketing perspective. How Why do you think word stream was so popular? Like you say that $200 a pop, you have to get a lot of people on that train. How did you get a lot of people on the train? What were the things you did right with Wordstream?

So, you know, a lot of marketing, like just content marketing.

Early on, I figured out that, um, you know, blogging about how to do people advertising. How to do advertising growth marketing stuff. But this was there's a big appetite for that. And, um, because my background is in more technical, uh, software kind of background that I felt that I had a unique perspective on a marketing. It was more of a systems engineering perspective.

So, like, I would write articles on, like, you know, reverse engineering the quality score algorithm for Google AdWords based on analysis of, like, 1, $1,000,000,000 you know, you know, 100,000 accounts or something, youknow, eh?

So we're able to then using kind of that the data that we had and some analysis skills that I have to produce some unique insights into how this stuff works, like SEO. And, you know, you know, adwords and Facebook at auction, Like, how How did these kind of black box is actually work?

And, um, that was really well received, by the marketing community. Like because, you know, not a lot of people have access, that have those kinds of insights. And those who do, like, tend to not want, they want to keep it to themselves

And so, you know, that was your question was Like, how did you

How did you get so many people like using the software?

I would say it was marketing, um, in it and specifically, you know, uh, producing kind of this unusual data, data backs, surveys and studies that were, like, unique and know that. Plus, uh, you know, just, uh, doing it for a good amount of time.

Rikki : Always helps.

Larry : Uh, today,

Today there's like, uh, you know, I have a decent following, a pretty strong email list. So it's not self sustaining, but those were some of the things that I It's kind of I kind of I don't know, getting noticed early on.

You know like if that makes any sense.

Rikki : One thing

that you have done and a few successful software companies have done is you've been the sort of evangelist and kind of front face of the company as well. You've got out there a lot, and I've seen you speak at inbound and other events. And you, you blogged on a lot of popular platforms. So you yourself have kind of gone out there And built that.

Do you think that was an important part of having getting word stream out there, Having you as a sort of face or focal point of the company as well?

Larry : Um, you know, it helps.

I don't think it's it's a requirement because there's plenty of big brands like Coca Cola or whatever. Like were You don't have, like, necessarily have a front man.

Uh, but, uh, you know, I think it's sort of a ah growth hack for, um, you know, when you're getting started, you know, like like, um, uh, can you give an example? So, like Neil Patel, a colleague of mine, used his personal brand to kind of Bootstrap, his agency. But today it's gotten so big that he's kind of re branding it as NP Digital because because it's like thinking like, Wait a minute, like I need this to be bigger than one individual's personal brand.

So, um, I think I think you you know, I didn't call it like Larry's software company, you know? You know, it had Its own it It had its own identity and, um, brand and core values. And, uh, but, uh, then again, when it comes to like, social media and blogging, like, people prefer content from individuals rather than from like a corporate entity. So, um, so I can see how they're They're both helpful.

Rikki : Yeah, definitely no. Like that approach. It's a good sort of similar to kind what Rand did with Moz as well he was sort of,  That was a bit of both. He was sort of front man and he obviously got in front of a lot of people and talks a lot of events like you've done. Built the company itself kind of out kept growing beyond that one man sort of thing as well it kind of has its own core values and ethos and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, that makes sense.

Larry : Kind of my doppelganger in the SEO scene.

Rikki : Yeah.

Larry : You know, like when both, like started, Uh, you know, software companies, both. A lot of content marketing. His focus is obviously SEO my, Mine was more on pay channels.

Uh, um, yeah. So, uh, yeah, that's that's kind of cool.

Rikki : Yeah, it seems like a model that that certainly works.

Paul : Made me, While you were chatting that made me think about something else we wanted to chat about, which was medium and content on there, that you got quite 190,000 followers. We were just looking on medium. 

Larry : So I'm actually the eighth most popular, uh, blogger on medium. And And I can tell you how how I did that it was first mover. So when the thing came out, you know, 5/6 years ago, Um, I just thought, Wow, this is the greatest thing ever, huh? I really committed to that channel, Okay. Like, I was like, I was blogging there every day, and I still do,

um, and, um,

early on, when the platform was starting out, they actually they need help. They need help with getting people to follow people is so like because I was early, they would feature me on lists of people saying like, you know, if you're certain, you know, uh, Rikki, I saw you're interested in entrepreneurship. You know, here's someone to follow in entrepreneurship, kind of figure out how those algorithms worked in terms of their their recommendation recommended,


authors to follow. And, uh, it was it was pretty simple. It was just like, you know, including certain tags and just making sure that you have a top post like, you know what, once a week and stuff like this. So it was pretty simple to reverse engineer. And, you know, I would say 80% of the followers I just got out of that one growth hack.

Just, um, kind of getting placed on these kind of follow lists, you know. And now that I've obtained those followers, anything I publish, it gets a good amount of engagement and use. Um, so it's kind of like self sustaining at this point, you know?

No, it's too much like like if you have a blog that has a lot of email subscribers like then every new blog post will do fine because it has a it has audience. Like I kind of bootstrap the audience by hacking the recommended authors kind of algorithm. So I don't claim to be the greatest writer in the world, But I am the eighth most popular, Really,

Paul : Just the eighth just the eighth best.

Larry : This is just as a result of us simple observations on how that platform works

Paul : How early would you say that was a deliberate decision? To go Okay, I can I can manipulate this algorithm and take advantage of it. Or was it a I just need an oputlet, and I want to just like platform

Larry : manipulation is feels like a negative word. It was more observing how, how it works and being able to kind of, do the things that it was looking for. So, um, yeah, uh uh

I went all in on it about five years ago, and and, um and it's still generates millions of views, like a month. It's pretty great.

Rikki : What was it about medium that made you think I'm going all in on this? Or is there other versions of medium that you've gone all in on and it's not really gone anywhere like that Seems like a good decision now,

Larry : Like Google Plus?


You know, it was plausible. It was kind of, like the opposite of Twitter, you know? Yeah, it's a short form post. It was a long form post. You know that it was the same founder, you know, Ev Williams and all that stuff. So, um, it seemed it seemed plausible. And, um ah, and it was working. So So I just stumbled down on it. I have this theory of, um here we have the donkeys and the unicorn. Something basically what it means this should you spend more time on the unicorns and you should get rid of the donkeys. Uh, that's just a metaphor. Of course. I have nothing against donkeys in real life. They're wonderful animals. (laughs)

Just saying, you know, like you examine, like, what's the output value from channels They're dying in the and double down, or but more effort on the ones that are working. And so,um, I just have that kind of a unique advantage in medium, so we just continue to invest there in minutes. I would say it's, uh, every influential marketer you know, either intentionally or by luck has cracked the code on one or more distribution channels.

So, like Rand were talking about earlier, like he's really nailed YouTube like that. I kind of say that that's like whether he knew it or not, that that was like, a key part of building the brand that he has. Um you know, for me, it's It's more like, uh, Twitter and Twitter and media.

Paul : Where else? What about you When it comes to you consuming content? Whereare you? Where do you go to when it's time to learn? 

Larry : I read very little. It's like I produce content, but I don't read it. All right. It just, um it messes me up. It, uh, saw my contrarian. So, like, uh, you know, like, if if I consumed too much media and content, then I get very biased by, uh, conventional wisdom. You know, my whole thing is like, I did something different because, you know, if someone's blogging about how to do a certain marking tactic, well, then the cat's out of the bag. Yeah. You know, like it's it's too late at that point.

He has to be something else.

Rikki : Yeah, I understand. So we had a chat about kind of you in the background a where you've been, do you want to Have a chat about what you're working on now and what what drove you into?

Well, do you want to explain what what you're working on now and then we'll have a chat about what kind of drove you down the avenue a bit

Larry : awesome, so started a new business called Mobile Monkey, and it's, uh, the world's fastest growing Facebook messenger marketing platform. Um, you know the reason why I think this is really interesting is I think it's the greatest opportunity and marketing it for the next decade. Messaging

Just like how email marketing was so fundamental, you know, in transforming marketing communications over the last 20 years, I think chat marketing is sort of, uh, next thing. And, you know, some people think, Oh, well, I don't know, like I don't wanna have, you know, marketing messages on my chat screens. But people believe or not, if you go back 20 years who people felt the same way about email marketing, like back in the nineties, early early, two thousands.

So, um, so I think it's really exciting, and, um, you know, you can just the way of creating more engaging content and, um, with with, you know, 80% open rates and 20% click rates, which is kind of unheard of,

Rikki : You're not getting that on email, anymore are you?

Larry : or any other marketing channel like like if you think of, like, ads or paid organic social media like there's just nothing that comes even close. And so, um, you know, I just think, um, this is this is where I wanna focus my attention. I think there's an opportunity to build $1,000,000,000 platform here. So like when I mentioned like I was hoping to do something bigger than Wordstream,

I mean, um, you know the challenges like there's only like, 6,000,000 advertisers, you know in the world. But like a solution, like you know, chat marketing, I think could apply to hundreds of millions of businesses.

Rikki : Yeah, sure.

Larry : So it's It's a big A total addressable market. I think that it's a fantastic, uh, you know, for businesses messaging on on sort of the platforms where there's our most familiar, most comfortable communicated

you know, and the business is growing like crazy. We're you've got you no hundreds of millions of of ah monthly active users and, um on and, uh, you know, trying out. It's mobile monkey dot Com it's kind of Ah, it's kind of like HubSpot. But, um, you think chat rather than, uh, using a private email. So we're gonna have a house. Why? You felt like landing pages to collect emails? Well, I have landing pages that collect chat messaging permissions you know .

And you know how they have an email blaster? Well, I have A chat, blaster. And you have They have, like, email driven your campaigns. Well, I have chat driven campaigns. Like we were we can send sequences of messages.

And, um, you know how they can create audiences. We can create custom audiences based on conversational criteria, And then we can upload those to Facebook ads or, uh, you know, the other crazy things. So So it's kind of Ah, I would say emerging field.

Um, uh, there's probably 1% of business is doing shop marketing today, but I suspect if I'm right, my thesis is that, you know, 30 40 50% of business. We're gonna be doing this in the next 10 years. Well, it's a huge opportunity isn't 1%.

Paul : You're ahead of the curve. If you if you get on board without 1% quickly, then.

Larry : So, just like in any marketing channel, it's never It's never gonna be this easy to to by or to organically generate lists off opt-ins You know, like like, um uh, and then the engagement rates are, you know, they're not likely to go any higher than they are right now, you know?

So So, uh, um, this there's a I guess you could. I believe my entire career, like for the growth of worse treatment was it's just based on first mover advantage. Like finding and identifying promising marketing channels and investing it in them early. You don't want to be the the poor schmuck who just discovered social media marketing today?

Yeah, you know, it's like there's a book.

Rikki : That's an uphill battle, isn't it?

Yeah, sure. Uh uh,

Larry : You know something new?

Yeah. And like, say, it's it's such a huge opportunity for potential users and companies, isn't it that your competitors are unlikely to be on there? So, like you say, your engagement rates and open mates are going to be probably high that high for quite a few years. Still, isn't it obviously, in 10 years time, if you still getting 80% you doing well. But if you're moving now, that's a huge advantage over competitors who we're probably not going to do in this for a few years.

Larry : Yeah, these things last for a decade or so, like Instagram has been around for a while, and the organic, engaging rate is still actually

any decent, you know, as is with YouTube. But like, uh, you know, email, believe it or not, once had, like, 30 40% open rates. You know, it's like, you know, 3 or 4%. So they I think now is the time to be investing in messaging. And then we're definitely seeing that, like our growth methods like that, like the growth this is, you know, pretty astronomical,

 like in terms of the month over month growth.

Rikki : What do you think's held companies back from? Investing in and trying it and pushing it is a marked in channel, you know, I don't think it's hard, but but it's different. And i, um you know,

Really, I should just give you a kind of a personal example, like, I know that I should be better and going to the gym more But it's just like, you know, it just takes time and effort and like like anything you know. So like, chat marketing. It's It's like one of these things, like vegetables like, you know, do it? It's gonna be good for you. But not everyone wants to do that yet, So

I don't know it's like you. You It's hard for like when When you get older, it's harder to learn new things. So, like there's a lot of social media influencers in the space like, uh uh, you'd be surprised. It's like none of them are leveraging this new technology like it's It's actually a new crop of of future influential people that are jumping on this.

As opposed to the kind of the brand, the preexisting brand names in the space. So it just it's just like a new generation thing. I don't know who knows

Paul : Thing is,  could it be because the old tactics aren't exhausted enough yet things aren't broken enough.

Larry : I don't know. Maybe they have, like, invested interest in the status quo, like they've written a book on howto. How do you know social media marketing and how to post stuff to your wall that even, you know, like it's just you need a new I knew. It is a new perspective on these technologies. Maybe I don't know.

So, like, my my my view is like, this is the greatest thing ever, like target. The same people that you're trying to target through ads or through your news. Okay, but you can get the med like, 80% open rates and 20% rates. So, like, you know, for free, You know, um, you know, it kind of,

um I don't fully understand what the hang up is, but, uh, maybe it could be that it's hard to use in, in which case, like, that's why we're buildings software tools and we're gonna make it super easy and productive. It is super easy and productive.

Rikki : Yeah, I guess whenever I've chatted with prospects or people all round message in a conversational marked and I think that perception is "it's gonna be really hard, and it's gonna be really techy", I guess. It's like anything new, isn't it? This is news is techie. I can't do it,

but obviously tools like what you guys created, It's just it's no harder than than anything else really is. It's just not time investment. Have a open an account of a play with Read a couple of how to videos or whatever it is and just have a go.

But I guess that's the barrier I hear is it's it's got perception of it's going to be hard or it's

gonna be for

young people know about technology or whatever is. It's. I think it's more of a perception thing. I don't know. I think SEO is hard. Yeah, for sure.

Paul : So it's all's well without with our clients from the ones I've spoken to our prospects. You've overcome the battle of getting into inbound content, marketing an email marketing to then Chuck in another, another hurdle to try and get your head around. It's Well, maybe one day we'll start with the things where you know we could be could be improved on like e mail open rates for three or 4%. While the client understands what that is, they get what email marketing is. So it's a bit more tangible, isn't it?

Rikki : I think yeah, like, say that just they're so used because of the space hasn't changed a lot really, If you look at it the tactics most people using its Blogging and its social, it's email that's not changed for a long time, really in to.

To get something that's completely new into it can, can be tricky for a client to get their head around a or an inhouse marketer has got to go in sell that up to management or whatever and that they can be tricky. But I think the thing that excites us about message in a conversational marks and is actually the tactics don't the tactics change. But the Sort of strategy doesn't. At the end of the day, we're still gonna being content lead, and you can still do you your premium pieces or whatever is but just your method of how you're delivering to people,

isn't it? Instead of out in the Landing page with a form on on, you're gonna be invited to a chat bot where I ask your email address, or or it doesn't even ask your email dress, and it delivers the content to it

When you send out an e blast you doing. It's a blast on social media. It's like

actually the strategy. The big top line strategy is not changing its the media.

It's the media. It's the channels. It's the technology that's changing and is that. Is that how you are explaining and sound into people.

Larry : Yeah more, yeah more or less I mean, um, it's, uh, chat is a combination of a Web page and email. Okay, So, like, uh, it's kind of like email in that. You can do push Question what? You know, initiate a blast to, ah distribution list. But unlike email, the user can also initiate a session people so the user can go to your website and start chatting with you. Uh, and then in which he's a robot can kind of respond to those questions. So depending on who's initiating the session, it chat marketing is either like a website where it's kind of providing the information.

Or it's like an email campaign where you're you're firing off a lot of information to Subscribers.

So, you know, maybe that's a little bit hard for some people wrap their head around. I don't think it's that hard, but, um, it's kind of kind of like, uh, website plus email, all in one channel.

Rikki : Yeah, well, um, what I quite like about what you're doing. As well is focusing on the Facebook side of things, and there's a lot of people moving in the messaging space in the chap, but space. It's a lot of people, and they're all making slightly different moves from a software perspective. And what I really like about what you're doing is just saying, Like like you said in the intro for the fastest growing Facebook messaging . And why was it that you chose the facebooks, our message and technology to kind of piggybacking on? What was it about?

Larry : Um, you know, they have really good API's and compare its compared to Google and Apple like they're just further along in terms of the support of for for party companies like myself. You know it,  Definitely The goal is to, um, you know, support other messaging platforms like in the future kind of Like how On Hootsuite in post content to linked in or Twitter or Facebook, you know?

So So we do want to support posting and responding to content, irregardless of which, um um, you know, messaging channels but you know, every every pot from sources appoint solution and you know, the boardroom sports Facebook, Google Bing, you know, But it started out as a point solution for AdWords and um. I expect a similar trajectory for this

Rikki : Makes sense, so listeners and mainly in house marketers. If they were thinking right, this this message in thing sounds good. I'm going to get started.

What's Where's the best place to start?

Where's the easiest places that are the quickest way?

And where's that? What would be the first thing you don't? If someone had never done any message in marked in before,

Larry : I would do a chat blast, so I would just, uh it's also known as a messenger broadcasts I would use mobile monkey. It was just, uh, sign up for the thing if you have an existing Facebook page and you probably have subscribers, guys. So a subscriber in messenger is somebody whose messaged your page in the past, Okay, so so Mobile monkey will import those contacts in a contact list, and the first thing you do is is just send them a some kind of a news like, you know, here's a new blog post or here's a webinar. Just send them something, too, and then just remember to look at the engagement rate that it generates, you know, make it fun and include gifts and emojis and stuff like this. 

But, But, um, you know, that's sort of the first step. And then, you know, once you see the value there, then no, wait a minute. Really great. I need more contacts on. But there's, like, if tools for building out your contact list like the subscriber must like like, um landing pages were someone, uh, clicks on a button. They become a subscriber there, there. So it's, um, uh, different tools to really dramatically grow your subscriber list.

You know ,guys I get More business through chat marketing than I do through my website. So, like, uh, like, I think that's, uh that's the tagline. Yeah, well, I mean, maybe where I'm a a, uh maybe I'm, uh, kind of uneducated because we also happen to be selling chat marketing products.Its kind of meta. But But, um, in China, I can tell you that you know, all the commerce and stuff use browsers. No, it's, uh it's always so, um, no, I don't know that will happen in the West, but I definitely think that that model of finding information and communicating with your brands and ordering things are messaging as opposed to only is using the browser or an app is definitely viable.

Rikki : Yeah, well, I really like about that tip on how to get started is people are already gonna have a base level of subscribed like everyone's got a Facebook page. They'll have messaged people in the past when you can go and send a broadcast out like today and you're gonna have a list of staff from where is if they're looking and thinking? No, just on instagram Today, you're going to be starting from zero. You've gotta build that follow list completely from scratch, Like that's a much, much harder, slower job to do really, here can kind of. There's not many Marcie with Chad,

Larry : like, you know, like especially you guys are agency, like, see you kind of you doing this because you want your clients that I think that you're like, you know, on the latest, you know, marketing technologies like this Exactly.

No, you're right. I think that's a big part then. A lot of people are in the business where the they need to be on the forefront. If the software companies are whatever is that, they're that they're customers like to know they're on the latest with a lot of things. And they've got a lot of clients, too, having completely random and weird industries. But they still need to be at the forefront, or perceived to be at the forefront anyway. And I guess doing using things like this that not many people aren't a good waiter get a perception through

Paul : double E ahead as well. In a lot of cases, if inbound and email is already put in the mouth for step ahead of their competition. You think how far ahead you could be if you were doing this?

That's what kind of message to take away, isn't it? Yeah,

Rikki : Like that

on before we before we wrap up Larry, is there any? Is there anything we should have asked you about more of our monkey, our message, and that we haven't asked that we really should have asked like it's making sure we're not missing any tricks here.

Larry : So we have this mobile monkey group on Facebook. It's called Mobile Monkey Island. And i, it's, you know, just kind of hang out for tens of thousands of marketers that are doing chat marketing Mobile monkey I own Check it out. And, um uh, and you cannot. It's a free products. So you just got a mobile monkey dot com and

Rikki : no, we'll link that up under the podcast. Thanks for That Larry,it's been absolute pleasure speaking to you. Really appreciate your time. Can't wait to jump in and stop playing with this ourselves, so really appreciate that.

Paul : Yeah. Thanks. Larry

Larry : awesome. Thanks for having me on and I wish you success in your business. Um,

Rikki : No, you too Larry, enjoy. Thank you very much. Speak soon.

Larry : Thank you. Bye.