Inbound After Hours Podcast - Why Podcasting Is Important with Jenny Butler of HubSpot - Episode 7

In this week's inbound after hours we had Jenny Butler from HubSpot join us to talk about podcasting - listen up and learn why podcasting is important!

Written by Rikki Lear
Inbound marketing |   29 minute read

In this week's inbound after hours we had Jenny Butler from HubSpot join us to talk about podcasting. If your business is looking for another channel to grow awareness then listen up and learn why podcasting is important!

Digital 22_Inbound After Hours Banner - Episode 7_BP_v1.0.jpg

In this episode we will discuss:

  • Why podcasts are a great marketing channel
  • What you need to get started
  • Where you distribute them
  • What software to use



or listen...


Available on Itunes  Stitcher-Logo.jpg   tunein-3.svg   

Resources from this episode:

  • Jenny's podcast checklist:


  • Jenny's talk at Inbound 2016:

  • - for captions and transcripts


Thanks so much for joining us this week.

Have some feedback you’d like to share, do it in the comments below!

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Full transcript:

- Hi, everyone. Welcome to today's Inbound After Hours, episode 7. Today we'll be talking podcasting. And we have a guest with us today. We have Jenny Butler, who's a senior partner from HubSpot. Thanks for joining us, Jenny. How we doing?

- No worries, I'm good, thanks. Thank you for having me.

- No problem, we've got Rikki. And we've got Paul today. Andrew can't make it today. He's a busy man. So it'll just be three.

- A man down.

- Yeah a man down today, so, okay, how's things are going?

- All goes busy. Good, HubSpot is great. And I do a little bit of kind of work with podcasting, as you know, outside and that's gone really well too. So all good, all happy on the Emerald Aisle.

- Well, we first seen you last year, what was it, September last year at Inbound 16 over in Boston. And we'd come to see you at one of your presentations. And it was you who motivated us to start our Podcast and video blogs. So thank you for that.

Yeah, no, definitely.

- Thanks for giving us a kick up the ass 'cause we needed that. And we again watched you on YouTube the other day to prep some questions. So really impressed, really. So the first question, Jenny. Why podcasting? Why should people be doing it?

- So, I guess to explain why I'm so fanatical about it. Everybody uses the word passionate. So I don't want to use it. I'm drinking passion fruit juice at the moment with orange or something. I'm like, I'm not gonna use that word. Ever since I was a little kid. I guess it's cause I was an only child and had to find my own fun. So basically I just loved the idea of stories. I always wanted to be like, tell me a story. If people were buying me gifts for something. I love books. I'm like, I just want stories. That's all I want. So from that it kind of stemmed into I love how the idea of your voice can do so many different things. So when you're small, it can soothe you. So somebody can pick you up when you're crying. It's okay, and it soothes you. But it's their voice that calms you down. When you really think about it, it's like if you want to get into the science part of it. You can totally hear people's voices when you reach a certain point when you're not born yet. And that's the coolest thing.

You can hear somebody talking to you before you're even in the world, technically. And that just fascinates me. That you can actually be present in that, or cognitive of that when you're so young, I guess. And so, when I was younger, my dad had a little recorder, a little voice recorder, so he use today record memos. And different things when he'd be going around the house, you know, reminding himself to do things, or whatever. So I decided one day, these are back in the day, so these are are on actual little tiny tapes that have the little film of tape in them. And I decided one day, I was like, oh, I want to do that, but I want to do the news. So I wanted my own radio show. So I called it Jen FM 'cause I wasn't really creative. And I lined up all my teddy bears. And made my dogs sit there next to the teddy bears. And I had Jen FM. And it was just like, now it's time for the news with Jen. Here's another song from Jen. And it was all this crazy overexaggerated voice and everything. And so, my dad went to record something one day or to play back something, rather, that he had recorded. And it was just like, hi, it's Jen. In a much squeakier voice, of course. And then it was like, then occasionally. He would just be like wait, come back. 'Cause the dog would try to leave. So, you know, I'm just fascinated by it. I can't explain really why I'm fascinated by it. But I am. And so, that transitioned into me wanting to tell stories in an audio format, I guess.

So that brought me to podcasting, radio documentaries. Lots of different little projects that I like to work on. So it brought me into that field of things. And when I kind of got interested in marketing and in companies and how people communicate and how people try to relay messages across to each other, everybody was talking about video and obviously video was huge and it's obviously a great format. But sometimes it's not always the best way to communicate with people. Like if you're in the car, you can't reallyyou know what I mean? But you could put a podcast on.

You could use your little, your HDMI cable or whatever. USB cable in most cars now. And you can just connect everything up and you could listen to a podcast. And I thought it was just like a really interesting way to take what you're already doing. Basically I just think it's a really obvious way to connect with people that companies sometimes overlook because they think, oh, it's like, but we're already doing video. And we already have a blog. And we do all these trade shows. People can hear us if they really want to. But really, like, sometimes they can't. So if they're in the car, for example. If they're at the gym. Most of the time if you're at the gym, you're not gonna have a blog and reading through the blog while you're working out, 'cause that doesn't work.

Unless you put weights on the iPad or something. I don't know. It's just a really interesting way to actually get people to listen. Plus I think it's powerful because when you take like what I have now, like a pair of headphones. I'm listening to you. I have blocked out everything else around me. And you guys are what I'm listening to. And we're having a conversation based on that. And I think when you can do that, what I love about your show, what I love about Inbound After Hours is that you guys have that conversation going that I almost feel like when I listen to it that I'm sitting around the table or with a beer chatting with you guys about whatever you're chatting about.

That's incredible that you make somebody feel that way on their way home, on the 20 past six bus from wherever. And the traffic is really bad and it's raining. And everything's crap. And I just wanna get home and have dinner. And there you guys are, pop your ear phones own. And just sit there and you get through your commute and you can laugh along and think about things or tweet you guys questions, or whatever you can do. And be present in that moment even if it's prerecorded. There's something incredibly special about that that you just don't get with any other format, I think.

- No, we all listen to podcasts, like you say, commuting, gym, work, whatever that is. But why do we think that companies do overlook it? I agree, I think people are more likely to, I think written's normally the first place people start 'cause it's probably the lowest kind of barrier. Well, perception of the lowest barrier, anyway. And then I'd say, yeah, I'd say more video people go to next. But why do you think people overlook audio?

- I think people don't make the connection between a podcast is like on-radio, isn't it?

- Yeah.

- And everybody listens to the radio. But I think there's a bit of disconnect between listening to a podcast and going to the effort of listening to it and choosing it and downloading it. I think people don't understand that it is just a radio show on your own terms. And people don't think twice about sticking the radio on in the car.

- No.

- I think it's just about that disconnect.

- I was one of the people perceived podcast as something for kind of big topics. Like entertainment or football or a comedian or something that's this huge thing. And that's what podcast is. It's a bit like TV. That's our perception. And I don't know if that's where the disconnect is that people just assume podcasting's not for a 15 person B2B to company or whatever it is. It's this big thing that you've gotta have a production company and you've gotta be jazzy with it, for a want of a better word, I don't know.

- You gotta have a trained presenter.  You've gotta have, yeah, and that's not the case, is it?

- No, not at all. What do you think, Jenny? What do you think? Why do you think people often overlook audio as kind of a content format?

- I think a lot of people, because most prominent podcasts are from the likes of, say, like you've got Joe Rogan on the sports side with MMA. His podcast is phenomenally popular. And I really didn't think that, if I'm honest, when that started, I was like I don't really think that demographic that they're going for would be interested in listening to podcasts. But then when I really thought about it, and I was like, of course they are, they're at the gym. What else are they gonna listen to? If they don't wanna listen to music, they can totally listen to Joe Rogan's podcast. And it worked so phenomenally well for him. And then you have the other kind of more like say fictional stuff, like I Love Radio Lab. 'Cause you get such a mix of things on that that you can just sit there and browse through and see what you kind of want. But I think for smaller companies, or like you were saying, like small B2B companies, for example.

think you just don't feel like maybe sometimes you fit in. I don't mean like you guys. I mean like in general. People feel sometimes they don't really fit in with that. 'Cause like you were saying they see podcasts as, oh, it's like for famous people or it's a radio thing or something. But you have the other side then where it's like you have people who not being mean or anything, but they don't really do it right. And so, you have the other end of the scale where you just get people who are basically like, look, I don't think I really wanna be. I don't know if I can do it well enough. But I can't be Joe Rogan. And if I'm not getting a million downloads, is this a failure? I think there's a lot of fear in it. But from my point of view, I thought it would be a lot more difficult to get CEOs of companies and marketing managers to actually sit in front of a camera and record YouTube tutorials and things like that and be seen on camera on YouTube than it would be to get them to record audio. And it's actually the opposite, which I found fascinating. And they're more afraid of their voice than they are of sitting behind something and just standing there on camera.

I don't know why, it's just I find that really interesting. But it's definitely something that's accessible. You guys are living proof of that. Anybody can do this and do it well. And you learn as you go along. Something I said at Inbound, a lady asked a question and it was at the end, and something along the lines of, I set one up, but it didn't really go very well. And I was like, but you set it up. And she's kind of looking at me. And I was like, but you still set it up. You did it. And if it didn't go well the first time. Okay, go back again. But you still did it. As opposed to standing around and kind of will we, won't we. That's the main thing.

You can always learn. Nobody's, well, okay, I won't say nobody. But very few people are perfect right off the bat at anything. You have to learn it. It's a skill that you craft over time. And you have to give it time. - You're saying about the radio show and you used to do the voices. I think we've done video for a bit of time. But when we first sat around the mic, we were all joking 'cause people were going into the site.

- Smooth FM.

- Yeah, Smooth FM.

- High energy and then low.

- We were all doing these weird voices. And we just stopped like where were these coming from?

- I couldn't stop it.

- No, and it was really odd. It did take a bit of time to get out of us when we were doing some rehearsals. But that didn't happen on video.

- I remember, yeah.

- But when we sat around to do specifically the podcast around the microphone. I think having that microphone, we all started doing this radio voices, which is really weird.

- Yeah, 'cause you relate to the famous people.

- Like, you mentioned Gary V, how high energy he is. And we start doing that, and it's not us.

- No.

- Yeah.

- And that's why it felt awkward. But when we relaxed and it was just natural.

- Yeah, it is.

- Yeah, so.

- A great way to get around that, if you're ever stuck or if you're ever interviewing anyone, a great tip would be, start the microphone rolling and be recording and everything. But start talking about something really normal. Like how their commute was, how their dog is. Or what they did at the weekend. And they'll start talking in their normal voice. And then just roll straight from that, keeping your tone the same. Be like, oh, that's dudly. What you'd do for the weekend? Oh, that's cool. And you went to the park, or whatever you did. Oh, that's nice, that's really cool. How did you get into marketing anyway?

And they'll normally just continue on with that voice. And it's a tip I picked up with radio stuff. Because like you were saying, people come in and they're like, you're interviewing them about something. It's like, oh, I'm so sorry that so and so passed away. And that must have been really hard for you. And they're like, yes, it was. At the time, I was very upset. There were tears falling out of my eyes. You know, it's like, 'cause people panic 'cause they don't know what to do. And the thing that they relate to the most is, okay, well, there's these people who are on the radio.

And it's just like, okay, well, I'll just do that. And it's not you. And so, you guys do that really well as well. Which is why, again, I love the set up that you have for Inbound After Hours. Which is just let's just sit around a table and just talk what we think about social media, what we think about whatever we're doing. That's the way to do that and to build an audience based on it because people feel like they're right there at the table with you, having a beer, chilling out, talking about whatever it is. It's a great way to do that.

- 'Cause I'm really interested in digital marketing. I've listened to podcasts for years. And I didn't think anyone else did. It wasn't until I started asking my friends. My sister listens to one. I'm like, wow, normal people listen to podcasts.

- Yeah.

- Well, I mean normal 'cause sort of a geek I was, we're into tech.

- Definitely.

- And then we hold the Manchester Hawk, which is an event, monthly. We start speaking to other marketing managers. Now we're visiting all and we're listening podcasts. So that's when our ears pricked open for, wow. Carl personas are listening to the podcast.

- That's the disconnect I meant earlier. I think everyone thinks nobody listens to them.

- Yeah, but they're so popular.

- I remember seeing a tweet from someone, I can't remember who it was now. But he put about six months ago, podcasts are popular, who knew?

- And everyone listening to them. It's like, wow. Let's get on it. So, we agree with everything you say there.

- It makes sense to me 'cause every other entertainment format is going that way. Music is you download what you want. You don't listen to the radio anymore. TV, you choose what programmes you want. So why wouldn't this be the same?

- It is, yeah.

- On demand, exactly. Inbound After Hours. We've had a few challenges regarding equipment, audio, set up. Any tips you could give us? What do people need to start, the basics?

- What I would say if you're starting from absolute scratch, and this is something that we chatted about a little bit earlier, and before we started recording this podcast with you guys, was just literally take your iPhone or your smart phone, or whatever you have, hook your phones in, go into a room by yourself. And just start talking about anything you want, whatever you want to talk about. I think getting fear out of the way is the first thing to do because people have this misconception as well when it comes to editing. They can normally get their head around the microphone side of things. What you're using is perfect. It's a Yeti, they're brilliant. They're just a USB mic. They're perfect for what you need right now. There are microphones that would be, you get much better, I guess a crisper, much better broadcast quality sound, if that makes sense, without sounding like too weird about it. But they're perfect. We have them at Inbound. We had the blue Yeti model at the Inbound podcast booths. And they're perfect for what you need.

- That's exactly why we got that. What's that one? I'll write that down.

- There we go. And that's like, I think you guyed mentioned you picked that up for about 80 pounds or something on sale. They're very affordable. You can go to your financial officer and be like, look, I only need 80 pounds. Or 80,000 pounds, and then you can take a really nice holiday while you buy your microphone. But it's an affordable thing that you guys can do, that anybody can do. But start it out doing that for free. What I talked about at Inbound was, take your phone, set up a free SoundCloud account, see how you feel about it. You can get memes, like I have a friend of mine that I work with who creates original podcast jingles, if you want to call them radio jingles. And I work with him a lot when I'm working on projects. And you can do that and go to somebody and get them to create the music for you or whatever you want. Or you can get music that's creative commons.

So you just have to check the licencing for that and make sure that it's okay to use it and what way you need to credit that person for it. Or sometimes they offer you the opportunity to buy it and own it and whatever else. What really, I think the first thing you need to do is to take away all of the technical stuff, the fear and everything away. And literally just sit in a room, record something, see how it sounds, see if you like it. If you're like, hmm, this is something I could get into, that's fine.

Like, again, for under 100 euro, dollars, or pounds, whatever currency you're in, you can definitely find something that will get you a decent audio quality that won't be terrifically difficult for you to edit. So that's why the Yeti is great because it goes straight into the computer, through USB, as you guys can see there in the video version of this I guess podcast. It's the audio version. But we can see it in the video that goes with it. We can see that there's the Yeti's, the mic there on the table that's plugged into the laptop. You guys can get the audio straight away and edit that and whatever you guys are using. What are you using to edit?

- We are using a Final Cut Pro. So we throw the video in there. Rather than going straight to audio, as you know we do with the video, which is a video vlog. And we throw that Final Cut Pro. We've got multicam, and then we save out the audioable version.

- Yeah, well, people use it who go, so say, obviously we're slightly different with doing the video and the podcast at the same time. What are people using for audio edit that just do purely audio? What's your recommendation for people now?

- So really, the main two that you could use would be Adobe Audition, which is kind of the main one that most people I know would use. And again, it's Adobe, so you've gotta pay for it. But it is worth it. It does give you everything that you would need to make that broadcast quality. Or if you're starting out, there is a programme called Audacity, which is free that you can download. And it's perfect for starting out. It's actually a great way to just find your feet. I think editing is where people get a little bit frightened. Like, okay, I can record it and press stop and start. I can do that part. But people tend to get a little bit frightened when you talk about how to, if something is a little bit pitchy, or something sounds a little bit tinny. How to make that sound a little bit smoother.

Like you might take a look at what the base is like. Or, again, that's learning. And Gary Vaynerchuk, he had an Inbound, I guess, the main take away from what he said at Inbound last November in Boston was just to Google it. If you're not sure about something, it's on Google somewhere in the realms of Google or somebody will know. And I think that's the big thing from my session at Inbound was just, without trying to sound smart, you can figure it out, you're smart people.

You're running marketing agencies. You're doing really amazing things every single day. This is not, this is a challenge. But that's what you should welcome in whatever you do. Yes, it's a challenge. But you're totally able to do it. You're more than capable of doing it. YouTube has great tutorials for Adobe Audition. It has amazing tutorials for even how to set up a podcast. It will tell you you need this setting. You need this type of software. It will tell you.

There's loads of tutorials for the microphone that you guys have, the Yeti. I use, if I'm doing like, say, vox pops for radio stuff. Which I don't do so much radio stuff anymore. But if I was doing anything like that for radio or if I was recording interviews, I have a Zoom H1N, which is a little handy recorder. It's got two little mics. They point in either direction. So they're great for interviews. But really the main thing that you're looking for is the audio quality. If you can get that down, you can figure out how to at the bells and whistles and the music and whatever you need to do.

What you're looking for is, if I pick up a pair of ear phones or if I just put my laptop on and I press play, I should be able to listen to that without squinting or being like what's going on? Or I should be able to experience smooth audio the whole way, and that's just the way it should be. And that's what your focus should be without kind of worrying about, you don't need to make people sound like smurfs or cyborgs. You just need to be able to me hear what you're talking ut, basically.

- What'd be a quick tip to do that as a beginner if you're in an office like we are and it's a bit echoy or a bit, the rooms too big for the people who are doing the podcast? What is the problem there, in layman's terms?

- So, I think with stuff like that, with offices, it's kind of difficult. Because if you're in certain situations in different places, I've seen people put pieces of foam on the walls and just set it up that way. I've seen people get rugs off the ground and put them on the walls, just to stop the sound from bouncing around so much. So I think really if you're working with something like that in an office it's a little bit more difficult. Soft furnishings and things like that can help. What realistically what you're gonna have to look at when you're editing is probably something along the lines of the base and try and see if you can work with that. And I know that was something that I helped you guys with a little bit, which is, I can't remember the exact specifics of it. But it was, it's actually if you Google it, honestly, it's on forums like everywhere.

People have any question that anybody can come up with, like, oh, it sounds a bit funny in here. Or, oh, I don't really know how to make this work. Usually it relates to something to do with the base. Again, it's not always, and it can be other factors as well. But I find when I'm editing things, sometimes that can help. Not always, I mean, sometimes what you might have to do is kind of face up to the fact that you might have to find a different place to record sometimes.

- Yeah.

- Like, that might be an inevitability. But if you can fix it with that, then just make it a little bit easier on the ears. The important thing as well is when you're editing something to listen in ear phones primarily. So if you're just sitting at your desk and you don't have ear phones on but you're editing through the speakers on your laptop, it's gonna sound different. Most people are gonna listen to your audio, your podcast audio, and your video too through headphones. So make sure that you have a pair of headphones on that you can hear it that way. And then just try without the headphones as well just to see if there's a massive difference between the two. But again, you're target audience are gonna have headphones on.

- Most likely, yeah. The old wise tale probably about, was it Pink Floyd or somebody? They did their album, and then they'd go and listen to it on their little stereo outside in reception.

- Yeah, I mean, it's logical, though, isn't it? If most people are headphones, you should edit and listen to it in headphones. I know you do that, Mark.

- Yeah.

- But when I'm proofing and after you send them out, I actually put them on my speaker. I'm not getting the same experience as 99% of the people.

- Yeah, I just learned through experience through years of video animation with the audio listening on headphones. But I think that's a great tip for the listener. Something we take for granted.

- There's still loads of stuff that I need to learn as well. And I'll never, it's the same with Inbound it's the same at anything that I speak at, I'll never stand up somewhere and be like, I know everything. I can tell you all the answers. But if I don't know the answer, I'll be the first person to be like, I don't know. Who knows? And that's why I'm big into skill sharing. So if anybody knows the answers to something that I don't or if there's somebody in the room who knows the answer that's happened at Inbound, I didn't know the answer to something. So I was like, well, somebody in this room probably does. And we skill shared it out, and we got the answer. So just be humble about it as well. It's like, in any industry, even if you guys are at a networking event and it has nothing to do with podcasting or it's just an industry event and somebody's like, we're having a bit of trouble with getting leads through this campaign or something or other. And if in the back of your mind, you're like I kind of need to know how they could get around that.

Share that. You're already well on your way to be cult leaders. You're already established in what you're doing. And if you are, share that back. That's how everything works. Everybody should grow together. Not everything will grow at the same rate, and that's fine, that's life. But if you can help somebody along the way, like, I don't appreciate when there's a situation where especially with audio editing or anything where it's on the techy side where people are just like, oh, I'm sure if you just learn it, or whatever. It's like, yeah, okay, you need to learn it. But I'll help you. If I can figure it out I'll tell you what I did and how I did it. And I'll explain what I did or what I think you should do.

Be that person. And that's also how you grow as a cult leader in your industry. Be that person. Be the person who helps somebody else. But also inspires them to help themselves. That sounds so goofy. I'm trademarking that because I'm gonna be on the New York Times best-seller list about what I'm telling you.

- Yeah, I think just that value. We even discussed, truth be known, we said shall we disclose everything in these podcasts? 'Cause we didn't know what other agencies are gonna be listening. We said, yeah, absolutely. Just give 100% value. Share with everyone.

- You said it perfectly. 'Cause last time, I said it, if you don't tell them, they'll go and find it somewhere else.

- Yeah, they'll find it somewhere else anyway. So just-- - There's no secrets with the Internet, is there? 'Cause everything's out there already. So you might just be the one telling them about it.

- Yeah.

- We were in the hog event in Manchester as well. And that's very similar. Like 50, 60% of the room in there are other agencies. So my getting up there and saying we did an experiment on blogging, and this worked really well for us. We've tried public CTAs at the top of our blog instead of the bottom. And this got us more leads. In no way are we out to tell other agencies how to get more leads, which are competitors with us. But it all comes around.

- It does.

- It does, definitely. - It does, and I wrote something down. You mentioned thought leaders, which is an authority within your niche. So, I suppose the point of all this, really, doing the podcast. So a prospect will listen and think we are an authority, no matter what line of business you're in. It's being a thought leader.

- Yeah.

- Yep-- - That's kind of the-- - That's like the journey that everybody's on. That doesn't matter what industry you're in. Like, I mean, I don't know, whatever you want to say. Like are McDonald's a cult leader for fast food? I don't know. But, you know, you want to be that person when you think about your particular industry, rightly or wrongly that you think even if you meet someone and you're like, uh, I really just do not like that guy. But he's really good at what he does. We've all met those people, right? It's like you meet them or they speak at an event, and you're like, yeah, they know what they're doing. So, I think it's just about, again, when you're sharing knowledge like that and it's great that you guys do that at the Manchester home as well. Don't forget as well that when somebody's new or somebody sets up a new agency and they're just finding their feet, they have the talent and the tenacity to set that agency up. So, you know, they also had the gumption to go out there and try. And I think if they have that, they might also have skills that you guys might need at some point in the future. Like you guys are doing what you're doing really well now. And maybe at some point in the future there might be some project that you're working on where you're like, oh, remember those guys who set up doing that exact niche thing two years ago, and they're now cult leaders in that? And you end up, it comes full circle. You end up talking to those people in two years time and you're kind of like, hmm, like, you guys are working on some really cool things. And I think it's remembering those people and remembering to be humble in what everybody's doing.

Because eventually at some point, especially like Manchester's probably like Dublin in that it's probably a small enough kind of tech scene. And most people know most people. And that's just the way it is. But I think if you approach everything like you guys do, with skill sharing and knowledge sharing, you don't have to give them your book of business. I'm not asking anybody to be like, here, make us go bankrupt. But share. Again, exactly what you said. It's like, they're gonna find that out. They're gonna go somewhere and find that out somewhere else. Why shouldn't they find that information out from you in a really nice friendly way so that if you guys ever need each other in the future, you can just make a phone call.

- Yeah, I was gonna say, Mark. You don't use the word karma. But you talk a lot about it coming back around, don't you?

- Yeah.

- Just in business in general.

- I call it the boomerang effect. If you give good out, you get good back. If you're evil in life, you steal, it comes back. Law of attraction they call it. I'm a big believer in it.

- Yeah, it's generally right, isn't it? There's people you help out years and years ago. Particularly with running an agency, you'll get smaller companies who don't quite fit our persona or startups coming to us and saying, can we have your marketing services? Unfortunately, we can't quite afford it. So we'll give them resources and point them in the right direction. And those guys, some did them do make it big and two or three years later come back and end up hiring you.

- And remember.

- Yeah, and remember that you helped them right at the start Even though, we could have just said, no, go away, you've got no money. Instead of saying that, you just say, hey, we can't quite full-time help you right now. But here's a good place to get started. Or here's how we do it. Have a go at it yourself. Or here's the resource that we use to learn ourselves. People do remember that. And we've got some clients that come back three or four years later after us saying that who've come on as clients.

- It's an attitude that applies everywhere, isn't it?

- If you go down to the pub and be a dick, you'll never get to drink there. They're gonna stop inviting you in there.

- It's more than that as well. The comment we said earlier, which we certainly mean it, about you helping us to kick this off. And another thing, the Audacity free software you mentioned. When we did our first podcast, we sent that to you. You sent us a link to this, told me to do two things on two slides that just transformed it.

- Yeah.

- And we were like, wow, this is brilliant. And I sent you an e-mail saying how grateful we were. The feeling you must have got when people are e-mailing you. It's great.

- 'Cause you feel great. It makes you feel good. And it's like, that took me however long. Like 10 minutes to just figure out what was going on. Five minutes to find your resource. That's what, max 20 minutes out of my day. But that helps you to care on your series. You'll remember me hopefully at some point. It's like, I like that part. Because it brings everything like you were saying back around in a really, I guess, sort of holistic gets used and misused a lot nowadays. But it is a really grassroots way of doing things. It brings it back to the way marketing used to be.

Marketing used to be, you know, I always call it like it's a form of storytelling. There's talent to it, there's sales elements to it. And, yes, that's true and analytics and data and everything else. But fundamentally, what it comes down to is your ability to tell a story and tell it well. And use all of your other talents and data and everything else that's around you to tell a story. And that's what you do as a marketer. And as a marketing agency, you do that on behalf of your clients. And a lot of people have a problem with that when I'm like, you do marketing, and I'm a marketer at heart. And I always say that specifically I'm a marketer at heart. It's what I do. And everything that I do on that basis, I'll try and do with the best interest of people to the forefront. But when you put that into a context of being a storyteller, some people are like, oh, but I, I went to college for four years, I have a master's in marketing, I'm not a storyteller.

You're like, well, if you weren't a storyteller, you wouldn't really be working in marketing. You wouldn't be as successful as you are. Like it or not, that's a skill. Not everybody can do that It's not like a job that everybody can pick up and do. You either have that gift or you don't. And it's just about learning that cultivating it, it's a craft that you learn.

- One of the things I've been thinking about a lot recently and particularly while we've been talking is all of the challenges and reasons why people don't get started in podcasts. That's actually a great reason to do podcasts. Because Inbound's 10 years old or whatever it is now. Blogging's actually quite noisy in most industries. If people aren't actively doing a lot of podcasts in a lot of industries, you go and do one, you instantly stand out. We've already discussed that people are listening to podcasts. People are scared of doing podcasts. So if you can step up and do it in your industry, there's a good chance that you're going to get traction. So obviously in industries like ours and sites like HubSpot, there are competitors in podcasts. But for, I don't know, if you're a law company, or a manufacturing company or whatever it is. The chances of having another competitor doing a podcast are probably quite slim.

- I think of our clients, there's probably only one. An event company.

- Yeah.

- In that, we'll still probably have-- - If they go and do it-- - We're creating the market.

- Yeah, they'd clean up, wouldn't they? So it's hugely advantageous to do it.

- Yeah, I mean, we've actually pulled down our service list now to offer podcasting to our clients. So if they want us to come in, ask a question, set the gear up, do it. Edit it. And-- - And that's the thinking behind it, isn't it? It's just another way to get your story out, as Jenny was saying. But it's undervalued, because like we've discussed. Everyone's listening to them. But very few people are doing them. So there's such good value in podcasting, isn't it?

- Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I mean, just before this call, Jenny, we touched on word count, as well. Rikki, do you want to repeat what we said earlier regarding how many words once we transfer it the audio as well.

- Yeah, it's something we didn't think of as a benefit of podcasting when we started. We didn't go out with this purpose, did we? But wat we found is we love repurposing content as an agency. So if we write an e-book, we'll use them as blogs. And if we write a series of blogs, we'll turn them into an e-book, et cetera, et cetera. With the same thing in mind, all right, we'll get these podcasts out. We'll transcribe them, and then we'll use them as a blog with the audio attached to it. What I didn't quite realise is in 30 minutes how much we are waffle and talk. Because it actually equals like 8,000 words on average. Which is incredible because that's the same as if someone said to me go and write an 8,000 word blog, I'd probably be there most of the week. It'd take a hell of a lot of editing. It's a lot of time.

- Research time.

- And research as well. There are challenges when you get four of us literally waffling on a podcast because it bounces between people and kind of picking out who's saying what in editing. And it's quite amusing when we use, we use an online transcription service. And they obviously don't know who we are. So they just call people names. So last week, it was Mark or Andrew. One of you was red jumper. So, these are just calling people random names, which is quite entertaining, 'cause it's different every week.

- And then a transcriber took over half way through.

- Yeah.

- It went from red to blue.

- Yeah, they started calling him something else, like spiky hair or something like that. So it's really interesting. No, it's really interesting to see what they do. So it's a little bit of challenging kind of picking people out and formatting it. But I'd say it takes 30, 30 odd minutes with some corrections and layout and stuff.

- That's definitely more efficient than doing it yourself.

- It's hugely efficient. - Having transcribed interviews in the past, it just becomes a beast.

- Yeah, I guess if you're doing the sort of ones Jenny mentioned where if you're just doing a little few minutes tips ones, you could easily transcribe them yourself. But if I sat down and tried to transcribe ours with all of us talking for 30 minutes, it would be a bit of time. But the service we use, I can't remember how much we cost now. I think it's $14.

- Give them the name of it.

- It's, is it?

- Yeah.

- I'm not sure, but-- - We'll put it on the notes.

- We'll put it on the notes below, yeah.

- But it's sort of like $14. So say 10 pound for someone to transcribe and do half an hour audio for us is-- - Peanuts.

- Well, it's amazing value, really, compared to actually writing it. So, that's been a bit extra benefit to us of doing audio format, is that reusable content. And if anybody knows from an SEO perspective, the sort of long tail keyword benefit you're gonna get over a number of months from having a blog a week as we do with 8,000 words in it is really gonna help us.

- Yeah.

- So, no, I definitely found that a big bonus.

- Lots of tips today then, Jenny, from both sides. Have you got any more for us? Put you on the spot.

- If there's one tip you'd give marketers, we like to ask this question. If there's one tip you're giving us marketers--

- What would it be? - --what would it be?

- I guess for me it always comes down to the same thing, and it's pretty much always the same answer when I'm asked this, which is to just do it. The main thing that was tweeted out of my session at Inbound was, and I am gonna slightly swear, so forgive me. But it was no bullshit, no crop paper cord. And that was the one thing that got tweeted out with various different ways. Some people were like, we asked some people went to whole hogs, spent the whole thing out. And it was just something that randomly came out where I was trying to just explain to people if you take something away from this, it's like you absolutely can do this.

You can absolutely do this. It's a challenge. But that's what you're made for. That's what you're doing your job that you do for. Marketing is not an easy job. You don't have usually the same kind of day every day, because you're working creative content. It's not an easy job. And so, if you can do that job, you can figure out and master, do what you need to do to get your podcast on. And eventually if you stick with it, you reach that level of mastery is what I meant. But really just to do it, just try. All you can do is just try it. If it doesn't work out. That's fine. Take your top three popular blog posts. Whatever they are. Whatever their top three blog posts are over time since you've started blogging.

Take those and literally sit around a table like you guys do and have a conversation with your, the other members on your team or bring in somebody who already has a podcast who's an influencer, somebody who's already established and have them as a guest on your podcast. That's also great way to do that. You see this a lot on video content with YouTubers. So you'll see YouTubers who might have a couple of thousand subscribers and all of a sudden they're in, you know, maybe they pair with a YouTuber who has 1 million subscribers, whoever that might be. And all of a sudden they get more subscribers. It's about kind of working with influencers in that respect as well, but I guess really the main thing is just try it out. See what happens. Like, you know, just try.

- I remember seeing a slide on your podcast checklist. Do you still have that? Is that something we can?

- It definitely is. I'm gonna send that on to you. So at the end of this video, by the magic of editing, you will see the podcasting checklist. I can say now, but I don't know if it'll be edited in that way. But there it is. Whatever it is now. By the magic of editing, there it is. I will send that on to you, absolutely, no problem. It's a very short checklist. It's literally just how to get started. There's obviously a few other little bits and pieces in with it. I make no bones about saying that this is literally just to get you off the ground and get you started. If anybody needs to connect on Twitter, LinkedIn, whatever you need. Let me know. If anybody has podcast links that they want to send to me, I want to hear the podcast. So let me know. And, yeah, just keep growing it as a medium that needs to get a lot more attention and gain a lot more traction. And who knows? You'll be the next Joe Rogan of marketing. I'm secretly hoping this is just one slide with a checkbox in it that says get started.

- Get started. Get shit done.

- Yeah, that's it. That's the podcast checklist, yeah.

- Brilliant, thank you so much. Appreciate your time.

- Yeah, it's been great speaking to you. Thank you for that.

- And best of luck-- - No worries. Thank you very much. And congratulations on your podcast series. It's really impressive. I love that the way you guys just sit around a table, chat it out, it's a really great format. And I wish you all the best of luck with it. It's cool to see that you guys have got it off the ground.

- Fantastic, thank you.

- Okay, great. Well, keep in touch, Jenny, thank you.

- Bye, guys.

- Bye-bye.

- Bye.